In the reign of the powerful king Hyarmendacil I Gondor reached the height of its power. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Arnor wasn't poor, however. King Elessar confirmed in Faramir and his descendants the office of Steward of Gondor, and granted him in addition the Principality of Ithilien, ensuring his line a position as counsellor of the King. Further, military organization of Gondor is similar to that of Byzantine Empire during Middle Byzantine period, at least during early Fourth Millenium. How powerful could Nezuko have become (Demon Slayer), UNSC 2525 vs Protoss Empire at its height. Gondor was the prominent kingdom of Men in Middle-earth, bordered by Rohan to the north, Haradto the south, the cape of Andrast and the Sea to the west, and Mordor to the east. Nmenor was an extremely powerful kingdom at its heights, so its no wonder that you ask yourself how powerful was Nmenor at its height, and we will give you an answer to this question through very interesting details in this article. As noted, army of Justinian had 300 000 350 000 troops at 26 000 000 populace. Nmenor had only two rivers: Siril, which began at Meneltarma and ended in a small delta near the city of Nindamos, and the Nunduin, which reached the sea in the Bay of Eldanna near the haven Eldalond. Even from his mighty tower of Barad-dr he came, and made no offer of battle. There's also the question of whether Imrahil is talking about the main army of Gondor alone (eg, what would, in LOTR time, be the standing forces under the direct authority of Minas Tirith, as opposed to the levies of the outer fiefs, or include the full levies from the outer . This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. And said force was apparently the largest that had been seen in the north in YEARS. That, and they never really cared for what was going on up north until Arthedain was almost done for. The original model for the Stewards of Gondor is probably the title of steward, a medieval kings follower in Europe. Those of Harad were, together with Umbar, able to challenge Gondor; Haradrim principalities have 2 4 times the territory of Umbar. Denethor II, son of Ecthelion II, is a fictional character in J. R. R. Tolkiens novel The Lord of the Rings. Then in the willow-meads of Nan-Tathren we may meet in the spring. How powerful was Gondor at its height? Obviously, Gondor at the end of the third age was able to defeat Sauron 's forces on the Pelennor Fields. Why did Gondor never attack the easterlings? As far as I know the peak of Gondor's glory during the rule of the House of Anarion was during the reign of Hyrarmendacil I; the kingdom extended to most of ME, including Greenwood the Great, Rhun, Harad and Rohan. And it is at about the correct latitude. Aliases Hyaralondie, Hyallondie, Turmen Hyallondiva, Stoningland, South-kingdom Type Kingdom Location Southern Middle-earth Appearances Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor (mentioned only) Gondor is the most powerful kingdom of Men in Middle-earth. Of the ground forces of 110 000 men, maybe 33 000 will have been cavalry and the rest infantry. Then where were they when Arnor was being reamed by the Witch King? Wouldn't Gondor be more unified at this point? Prompted by Sauron and fearing death and old age, Ar-Pharazn built a great armada and set sail into the west to make war upon the Valar and seize the Undying Lands (Sauron remained behind). Actually, naval transport is almost always preferable to ground transport, especially in premodern times - it makes logistics much easier. Other names after the Downfall include Mar-nu-Falmar (Land under the Waves) and Akallabth (the Downfallen in Adnaic). Well this is a fanon speculation thread so what's your fanon about Gondor at its height? You are using an out of date browser. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. 20 000? And then splits off from the larger Dunedain kingdom that Elendil founded when the underaged Valandil succeeds Isildur to go independent. How big do you think the army was? How many ships? Allies may have provided additional 80 000 130 000 troops. Since its first official ruler post-Elendil happened to be Valandil. 30 000? Actually, they are not. The Men of the Sea, it was said, send before them a great cloud, as a rain turned to serpents, or a black hail tipped with steel; and in those days the great cohorts of the Kings Archers usedbows made of hollow steel, with black-feathered arrows a full ell long from point to notch.. Gondor at its peak had population of 8 to 10 million people, army of around 110 000 - 115 000 and navy of some 130 - 140 ships. Hmmm..could there be scouts under Vanguard command directly?Cause if the scouts have to report their reconnaissance to the Army command directly, it'll cripple the Vanguard's tactical flexibility. Come join us to discuss the works of Tolkien. For more information, please see our The Kingdom extended east to the Sea of Rhn, south to the nearest lands of the Haradrim, as far north as Mirkwood and west towards the borders of Arnor. Which routine is best for gaining muscle? I'm talking about an actual campaign. Wasn't arnor height pre war of the last alience? Huh? Scan this QR code to download the app now. But in Middle-earth in the year SA 1600 the Dark Lord Sauron (former servant of Morgoth), the enemy of the Valar, deceived the Elven smiths of Eregion and forged a master ring. Hyarmendacil's reign brought Gondor to its greatest extent and power. Not really, as we don't have any sense of how much more powerful Gondor was at its height vs the end of the second age. Golden Age. Further, Byzantine navy might have had 42 000 men and 300 warships, which would imply that Gondor had 18 500 men and 132 warships in the navy, for a total military establishment of 128 500. Potential guesses go: Population total is thus 15 075 000 people. How did MONARCH keep TITANS hidden for so long??? Under Justinian the ERE was at its peak. Now he needed to concentrate on Gondor. Like the eastern one its the wealthier part of elendils kingdom but unlike the eastern Roman Empire Its great conquests were new territory. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. So while the Kings of Arnor were claiming rule over Gondor as well, Gondor didn't recognize their claims. What are the main characteristics of Gondor? The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. In the year SA 3255, the 25th king Ar-Pharazn sailed to Middle-earth. Because it meant he could break away from Arnor without any fear of someone telling him to knock it off. View all posts by aldariontelcontar, Your email address will not be published. Were there more orcs in the siege of gondor than in the nirnaeth arnoediad. Though I think that would also have caused population issued that screwed them over. It does not store any personal data. Population total is 1 205 000 people at the time of War of the Ring. What money is available for senior citizens? Elendil, son of the leader of the Faithful during the reign of Ar-Pharazn, his sons and his followers had been warned of the disaster that was to befall Nmenor, and they had set sail in nine ships before the island fell. Probably the most notable trait of Gondor, at least before the end of the series, is that it has no King. Didn't the ERE have a lot of internal issues that sucked up lot of its manpower however? In the year SA 3319 of the Second Age, Ar-Pharazn landed on Aman and marched to the city of Valimar. In fact, it was one of basic battle divisions. #1 In other words, could Gondor c. 1050 have defeated Mordor c. 3019? This, in context, refers to field army only. Alcatur Oct 31, 2016 #27 Scan this QR code to download the app now. The population? It was a very wealthy kingdom. Too bad everything went to shit after that. It pretty much dominated Middle-earth during its five-century-long Golden Age under the Ship-kings and their descendants. We emphasise serious discussion here over jokey/meme-based posts. Byzantine armies were usually divided into five self-sufficient divisions: vanguard, right and left flank, main body and rear guard. Across Middle-earth, threats new and old arise to trouble the heirs of Numenor and their allies. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The story of the rise and downfall of Nmenor is told in the Akallabth. Isildur rescued a fruit of the tree which grew to become the White Tree of Gondor, preserving the ancient line of trees. So it would appear that some sort of seniority of the Northern Kingdom was recognized by Gondor, but it was always a separate kingdom, then after Arnor broke into feuding states it was decided that the rule was over. According to Byzantine doctrine, all these divisions were of equal strength, which is how I calculated strength of Gondor's field army at its height. Rohan has beaten Isengard with a lot of trouble (10.000 soldiers), Gondor has survived an attack of Mordor (more than 100.000 soldiers), while being occupied at other places like Pelargir. How Powerful Was Gondor At Its Height Imrahil's Statement In Return of the King, Prince Imrahil notes that the 7 000 strong force would have been a "vanguard" of Gondor's army in time of its greatest strength. An average First Age Elf is at least 12 Orcs. Over time the Nmenreans came to resent the Ban of the Valar and to rebel against their authority, seeking the everlasting life that they believed was begrudged them. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Interests include history, especially military history, as well as fantasy, mythology, politics and culture. Were they divided? Welcome to r/tolkienfans! There are two main reasons that Gondor was weak by the end of the Third Age as the War of the Ring approached. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Rohirrim could deploy up to 24 000 soldiers from it, but only 12 000 18 000 were professionals, and this is from population likely larger than Gondors population of Calenadhorn, open to attacks until Umbar and Harad were conquered, so likely lightly populated, important port commanding very large area, likely larger and more densely populated than Calenadhorn; very loyal until Kin-Strife. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. The dundalings were subjects of Gondor? Could it have raised a bigger army then Rome at its height? This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Was beirland the anicent name for gondor? But in your own head cannon, how big was the force that Ar-Pharazon led against the Valar? You must log in or register to reply here. T, What leaves me scratching my head is what is meant with a "vanguard". As such, forces will be increased: Some areas may have deployed professional forces before, but I will assume that they were still lightly populated as they could not afford professional soldiers by the time of War of the Ring: Now to areas that were completely abandoned by the time of War of the Ring: Armed forces total is 112 000 regular soldiers, implying population of 8 320 000 9 700 000. I am born and live in Croatia. After the disappearance of King Ernur, who left no heir to the throne of Gondor, the Steward Mardil Voronw became the first of the Ruling Stewards in TA 2050. 4 Next Aldarion Member Joined May 30, 2019 Messages 650 Sep 1, 2020 #1 Moved reply from this thread to avoid off-topicing much. Robert's love for all things fictional started at the age of four when he first watched Batman: The Animated Series. Privacy Policy. From what I remember, Widow is thinking of the Unfinished Tales version. #1 Ten years before aegons conquest gondor from 1100 ta appears in between the iron islands and the riverlands. Then in the yards of Rmenna the saws and hammers were busy, while among many lesser craft a great ribbed hull took shape; at which men wondered. Seems they'd have a vested interest in a strong northern realm. We emphasise serious discussion here over jokey/meme-based posts. By SA 1693, the Elves and Sauron were at war and in SA 1699 the Elves were overrun. In likewise, Nmenor at its height was the most powerful kingdom of Men that ever was in Arda, or ever will be. Hence, I think it's as reasonable to say that Sauron's priorities changed once the Lord of the Nazgl was defeated. Where Meneldil is happy that his uncle and cousins are leaving Gondor. Edit: Arnor's issues came from a lack of strong central authority. Elros son of Erendil was the first King of Nmenor, taking the name of Tar-Minyatur (First King). How powerful is reproduction manipulation? You are using an out of date browser. And a seedling they brought of Celeborn, the White Tree that grew in the midst of Eressa; and that was in its turn a seedling of Galathilion the Tree of Tna, the image of Telperion that Yavanna gave to the Eldar in the Blessed Realm.. After its fall Nmenor was called Atalant, meaning the Downfallen, in the Quenya language. Well, their choice to settle in northern shitland! Cookie Notice This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The population? That was a might of Nmenor at its height! How many men? You must log in or register to reply here. It may not display this or other websites correctly. , It is a possibility. A lot of people held the Kingdom of Gondor in high regard, or in some measure of respect. Minhiriath, Anduin Vale, Rhovanion, Nurn and near Harad were tributaries of Gondor. Who would win if rohan and gondor had a war?? Why? Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Gondor at its peak had population of 8 to 10 million people, army of around 110 000 115 000 and navy of some 130 140 ships. Gondor, without doubt. Yeah Oh, I absolutly agree with that, at most they could try to take over region of Gundabad and beyond Misty Mountains, but I don't see much place for success there nor any particular reason to try. How Powerful Was Gondor At Its Height Imrahil's Statement In Return of the King, Prince Imrahil notes that the 7 000 strong force would have been a "vanguard" of Gondor's army in time of its greatest strength. Yeah, the War of the Last Alliance fucked Arnor over in terms of population and such. And Sauron came. For he perceived that the power and majesty of the Kings of the Sea surpassed all rumour of them, so that he could not trust even the greatest of his servants to withstand them . He's a fuckwad. Gondor proper is also bigger then in canon because the most of the northman were tricked in 1090 ta into rebelling by the easterlings who made them believe that the king of gondor hated the northmen. Around SA 1800 Nmenoreans started settling on the coast of Middle-earth in places such as Umbar. This population would thus imply army of 175 000 200 000 men. Tarellen Oct 29, 2016 Prev 1 2 3 Next Widowmaker Subscriber Oct 30, 2016 #26 Azrubl said: Well, it's pretty much described that way in the books from what I remember. How big do you think the army was? This subreddit is a space for the Tolkien nerds of reddit to debate and discuss the whole Tolkien mythos. Gondor. Blood mixing, Sauron crafted diseases, lots of corruption, and near never ending border wars with Mordor took its toll on the nation over about 3K years. You must log in or register to reply here. The two quickly became good friends, and on Gandalf's suggestion, the Rangers guarded the land known as the Shire. That land the Valar called Andor, the Land of Gift . Conclusion: population 15 million, ground forces 175 000, navy 210 ships. Well, Arnor never had the phase of rapid expansion as Gondor and it suffered probably some sort of disaster rather early (connected with the depopulation of Annuminas). Northern ones however were much weaker, yet could house an army. Then he sent forth heralds, and he commanded Sauron to come before him and swear to him fealty. Both in terms of numbers of ships and the size of the individual vessels, Nmenor possessed by far the most powerful battle fleet ever to exist within Arda, particularly when strengthened by Ar-Pharazn for his assault upon Valinor: the fleets of the Nmenreans darkened the sea upon the west of the land, and they were like an archipelago of a thousand isles; their masts were as a forest upon the mountains, and their sails like a brooding cloud. If that was the case during its height, then estimate for a total manpower of Gondor can be made through comparison. The place was called originally Elenna or the Isle of Elenna (Starwards), because the Dnedain were led to it by the star of Erendil, and because the island was in the shape of a five-pointed star. Due to trade and a great population before things went down the shitter. Sunday, 19 August 2012 Populations of Middle Earth - Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit: Eriador I looked at the two great Kingdoms of men at the time of the Lord of the Rings, Gondor and Rohan. Imrahil's Statement In Return of the King, Prince Imrahil notes that the 7 000 strong force would have been a "vanguard" of Gondor's army in time of its greatest strength. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. This city, later renamed Minas Tirith, remained the capital of Gondor for the rest of the Third Age and into the Fourth Age; other major fortresses . How powerful could Nezuko have become (Demon Slayer), UNSC 2525 vs Protoss Empire at its height. Find out here. More? New Line Cinema's 'LOTR' Trilogy and Beyond. I don't own any of it and full credit goes to the various artists.Commonly used artists - Ted Nasmith - https://www.tednasmith.com/site-map/j-r-r-tolkien/Alan Lee - https://www.iamag.co/the-art-of-alan-lee/Jenny Dolfen - https://goldseven.wordpress.com/galleries/tolkien/John Howe - https://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/Elena Kukanova - https://www.deviantart.com/ekukanovaKimberly - https://www.deviantart.com/kimberly80/gallery Could it have taken out war of the ring mordor all on its own? The Nmenoreans came in such force that Sauron himself surrendered to their might. By Robert Milakovic Published on June 26, 2021 Nmenor was an extremely powerful kingdom at its heights, so it's no wonder that you ask yourself how powerful was Nmenor at its height, and we will give you an answer to this question through very interesting details in this article. That's not to say you have to be a LOTR scholar or Tolkien academic to post or enjoy this subreddit, but that we'd prefer mature topics of discussion here. If you had to ride on horseback, how long would it take you to cross an entire kingdom or a continent? And then Meneldil was a greedy cunt and stole half of Isildur's kingdom because he was a shithead who deserved to die in the womb. Answer (1 of 3): On horseback about 5 kph, 50 km/day average travel speed for average horse and rider. Where Meneldil is happy that his uncle and cousins are leaving Gondor. Because the last King before him, Ernur, had been taken by the Enemy at Minas Morgul, and in his lack of a lving son his line was discontinued. It may not display this or other websites correctly. For the first millennium of the Third Age, it became more and more powerful. I think it was that Gondor had a higher population, but Arnor's Dunedain remained 'purer' because they were insular and reluctant to interbreed. It must have come as a great shock to Sauron, who said in his heart that the Valar, having overthrown Morgoth, had again forgotten Middle-earth set his eyes upon many glorious things that could only have come from the land of the Valar, and realized that their influence was all about him: birds of song, and fragrant flowers, and herbs of great virtue. Why? In these parts we discuss literature facts, not fanfic. Being constantly under siege by Angmar does that to you. I hope to hear some insight from you guys! So while the Kings of Arnor were claiming rule over Gondor as well, Gondor didn't recognize their claims. 28 Atharaphelun 3 yr. ago From the Notes on Motives in the Silmarillion, included in Morgoth's Ring: Sauron was 'greater', effectively, in the Second Age than Morgoth at the end of the First. Cookie Notice Out of the races of Evil Men which faction hypothetically COULD have sided with Gondor before the War? If 7 000 men were the vanguard of Gondors field army, then the whole field army must have numbered 35 000. For the rest of his one hundred and thirty-four year reign Gondor was at peace; the passes of Mordor were well guarded, and no one dared contest his power. Robert, based in Osijek, Croatia, is a co-founder of Incomera, a media company that has launched several entertainment sites including Fiction Horizon, Game Horizon, and Anime Horizon. Sauron discovered this to his sorrow when his victorious armies in Eriador were caught between Ereinion Gil-galads elves and a Nmenrean army sent by King Tar-Minastir and annihilated. How. Its first capital was Osgiliath, moved to Minas Tirith in TA 1640. That didnt differ much from unmounted travel times. Tributaries are even more questionable. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The city of Minas Tirith remains the capital of Gondor; other major fortresses include Dol Amroth in Belfalas and Osgiliath, which is a city on the . To be clear? Its first capital was Osgiliath, moved to Minas Tirith in TA 1640. This means that field armies (80 000) were 32% of total ground forces available. How strong were its forces? The land was brought up from the sea as a gift to Men. and our Taking tactical flexibility into account, as a fully intact unit, each division, at least the Vanguard should have it's own scouts. Sorry, but I do NOT like Meneldil. This sparked a lifelong passion for everything fictional, and he became particularly captivated by the expansion of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. At their height they were a satellite of Numenor. JavaScript is disabled. Above all arts they nourished ship-building and sea-craft, and they became mariners whose like shall never be again since the world was diminished. But Meneldil was greedy and power hungry and was happy that his uncle and his oldest cousins died. Nmenor took notice and Tar-Minastir, King of Nmenor sent a fleet to save Lindon and by SA 1701 Eriador was reconquered. Fuck Meneldil's descendants. With Sauron as his advisor, Ar-Pharazn had a 500-foot tall temple to Morgoth erected in which he offered human sacrifices. Also had greater percentage of Dunedain in the population. Robert has watched the entire saga multiple times and eagerly awaits more. At Gondors height, however, Minas Tirith may have had population of twice the one noted here, and Osgilliath would have had up to 500 000 inhabitants. It was bigger, more rich and more influentual. We have to ask ourselves, what does it take to astound such a being? Oh, its hard to even speculate as we have no idea how dense was population of Gondor. We know Gondor went into prolonged decline for the latter half of the third age. The Northern Kingdoms had their own fair share of badass kings. Farewell!. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. After Mardil Voronw, who was reckoned the first of the line there followed twenty-four Ruling Stewards of Gondor, until the time of Denethor II, the twenty-sixth and last. Could it have taken out war of the ring mordor all on its own? Powerful. Or both? How strong were its forces? Also because Gondor's lands were more fertile and less cold. Allies may have provided additional 80 000 - 130 000 troops. T militaryfantasy.home.blog I basically worked off the assumption that Gondor = Byzantium. Therefore they grew wise and glorious, and in all things more like to the Firstborn than any other of the kindreds of Men; andthey were tall, taller than the tallest of the sons of Middle-earth; and the light of their eyes was like the bright stars.. So I know there is not a lot of information about Gondor at its height so this is basically fanon speculation but how powerful do you think Gondor was at its height? But some see in this new king bright promise, a sternness of character and a clarity of sight that may yet stave off the darkness. Your email address will not be published. Soon the Nmenreans came to rule a great but terrorizing maritime empire that had no rival, but a few (the Faithful) remained loyal to the Valar and friendly to the elves. Would they have been powerful enough to take on all of Saurons forces in the third age? I always thought that Gondor was a combination of the classical Roman Empire and the eastern one. 2023 Fiction Horizon, a property of Incomera d.o.o. This subreddit is a space for the Tolkien nerds of reddit to debate and discuss the whole Tolkien mythos. Its first capital was Osgiliath, moved to Minas Anor in TA 1640. The Boogeyman Review: A Familiar but Creepy and Well-Acted Supernatural Horror, FUBAR Review: Schwarzenegger Comes Back to the Screen with a Fun Family Adventure, The Clearing Review: Hulu Delivers with an Excellent Mystery Thriller. Along with providing a lot for the War of the Last Alliance, and much of their leadership dying at Gladden Fields as well. It is stated that Aragorn conquered most of these lands: Most of the Fellowship knew him before the film even began, but the one who knew him the best was Aragorn. ), and combined ground forces numbered a total of 110 000 men. Or were they weakened from continuous fighting? What percentage of recruits fail boot camp? Other regions would also have been much more populous. Mardil was the first of the Stewards to administer Gondor, and his descendants did so for 25 generations. Tolkien Wiki Places Gondor Category View After the Downfall of Nmenr, the Faithful Nmenreans led by Elendil would escape to Middle-earth and establish the North and South Kingdoms. During this time, the white tree Nimloth the Fair, whose fate was said to be tied to the line of kings, was cut down and burned as a sacrifice to Morgoth. RSS Wainriders Faction Preview: Gondor. All rights reserved. Aragorn, omer and Imrahil manage to gather a force of 7 000 to march towards Mordor. Mordor, first under the Lord of the Nazgul, and later under Sauron, had been waging a war of attrition for some centuries. They tried to compensate this by going eastward and colonizing large parts of Middle-earth, first in a friendly way, but later as tyrants. Nmenor saw the greatest flowering of the works of Men, in terms of craft, smithying, medicine and of engineering. Or were they weakened from continuous fighting? I think it was that Gondor had a higher population, but Arnor's Dunedain remained 'purer' because they were insular and reluctant to interbreed. And then Meneldil was a greedy cunt and stole half of Isildur's kingdom because he was a shithead who deserved to die in the womb. The largest city and capital of Nmenor were Armenelos. Manw, chief of the angelic Valar, called upon Ilvatar, who broke and changed the world, trapping Ar-Pharazn and his mighty host who landed on Aman in mounds of dirt and inside the Caves of the Forgotten until the last battle, taking Aman and Tol Eressa from the spheres of Arda forever, changing the worlds shape from flat to round and sinking Nmenor and killing its inhabitants, including the body of Sauron who was thereby robbed of his ability to assume fair and charming forms. How powerful would a person with these 3 superpowers would be? Is Bosnia a developing or developed country? The culture of the Nmenreans originated there shortly afterward. Because they received direct instruction and blessing from one of the greatest Maia: Enw came among them and taught them; and they were given wisdom and power and life more enduring than any others of mortal race have possessed. Reddit, Inc. 2023. After gathering their forces for two years, he and. As you can see from this quote, one of the strongest beings in Middle-earth, just surrendered without a fight. Eventually much of that craft lore was turned to the creation of weapons, armor and other warlike equipment. Or both? Gondor at its peak is pretty high up there in terms of fantasy civs barring settings with stupidly overpowered magic. Suspended above the waves of the great ocean Belegear closer to Valinor than Middle-earth, it was fashioned and blessed by the Valar themselves as a reward to the faithful fathers of the Edain who had fought with the Vanyarin elves against Morgoth during the War of Wrath: It was raised by Oss out of the depths of the Great Water, and it was established by Aul and enriched by Yavanna; and the Eldar brought thither flowers and fountains out of Tol Eressa. Also didn't eastern Gondor include dorwinon some of the best wine country in middle earth? King Ar-Pharazn took Sauron back to the island of Nmenor as a hostage and Sauron passed over the sea and looked upon the land of Nmenor, and on the city of Armenelos in the days of its glory,and he was astounded. q. By the IX century TA it broke into three kingdoms and was essentially over - it may had had some internal issues even earlier. Therefore I will ignore irregular militia deployed by some armies. I always seem to picture Gondor during this time as being filled to the brim with astronomers and philosophers and mathematicians, not unlike Ancient Greece and Alexandria. While Aragorn was working with the Dunedain Rangers, he met the traveling wizard himself. Sorta? Reddit, Inc. 2023. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". For seven days he journeyed with banner and trumpet, and he came to a hill, and he went up, and he set there his pavilion and his throne; and he sat him down in the midst of the land, and the tents of his host were ranged all about him, blue, golden, and white, as a field of tall flowers. Ugh. Was the Council of Gondor right in rejecting Arvedui's claim? To determine total manpower of Gondors armies at the time, some comparisons will need to be made; specifically with Byzantium as it serves the model for military organization of Gondor. *Hates Meneldil*. This proves just how great Gondor reeaaalllyyy is, how does Galdriel know the "ranger of Gondor". These divisions were usually similar in strength and composition: each was meant to be self-sufficient. If Arnor was named after Anarion, then who was gondor named after? Hence, Angmar's army could have been abandoned just as Mordor's army was when Sauron realized that Frodo had the Ring at Mount Doom. Privacy Policy. At the center of the island, the mountain Meneltarma was used by the Dnedain as a temple to Ilvatar. In later days, in the wars upon Middle-earth, it was the bows of the Nmenreans that were most greatly feared. Nobody likes the Mediterranean. Under his rule (year SA 32 to SA 442 of the Second Age), and those of his descendants, Men rose to become a powerful race. You are using an out of date browser. Answer (1 of 6): How powerful were Elvish kingdoms during the first age? Vanguard, as used historically, was supposed to be capable of engaging the enemy in battle. Even the Nmenreans themselves were astounded by the vast voyaging ships constructed from the time of the Ship King Aldarion onwards: a mighty vessel like a castle with tall masts and great sails like clouds, bearing men and stores enough for a town. I think that Gondor at it's height could have had an army smaller than Rome at it's height and still overpower the Romans. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Elendil, having sensed a growing menace in Mordor but not knowing it was Sauron had made preparations before the attack. This enabled the Empire to put two armies in the field, each around 40 000 strong, with about a third of the troops being cavalry. Council of the Sceptre needs to type much more characters, and I thought they're the similar unit, just like Steward to Prime minister I use Congress insteadnvm, I'll use the latter one since then. I thought it would be the other way, with Gondor absorbing old Numenorean colonies of Dol Amroth (or however it was called back then), Pelargir and Tharbad. Wasn't Gondor even more densely populated at its height? Imrahil notes that it would have been "just a vanguard" in days of old. Why did Gondor not field its full strength, or did it? Gondor will pretty much stomp any or all of the realms in Westros. Darth Gandalf 28K subscribers 9.2K views 2 years ago Gondor. Just how powerful was Nmenor at its height? Mordor during the time of the war of ring? Merroe said: I am more surprised each time with your ever-reiterating Byzantine stuff. All rights reserved. How powerful was Gondor at its height? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". He no longer needed a powerful realm in the north. I thought Gondor hold on them was loses? Sauron an immortal Maia spirit who had personally served and been instructed by Melkor, the greatest Vala who ever lived, who had seen and helped destroy the mighty elven kingdoms of the First Age of Middle-earth was astounded by the isle of Nmenor. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Are there other good Numenorean settlements apart from Gondor in the Third Age? If not for the disease that severely weakened the Numenorean blood, Gondor could have kicked some serious ass without any real problems. Turuphanto, the Wooden Whale, they called it, but that was not its name.. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Relevant forces are thus: Now, as noted before, these forces are significantly reduced from what Gondor could deploy at height. Welcome to r/tolkienfans! Over long distances, naval transport might be much faster. From Armenelos extended a great road that ran from the port of Rmenna through the capital and onwards to the Valley of the Tombs beneath Meneltarma and on to the port city of Andni in the west. He's also a co-owner of Comic Basics and Voice Film. How did MONARCH keep TITANS hidden for so long??? You are using an out of date browser. Though Faramir became Steward a month and a half before Elessar became King, Faramir is not considered one of the Ruling Stewards. Sauron then poisoned the mind of the king and soon corrupted the Nmenreans, promising them eternal life if they worshiped Morgoth. From what I remember, Widow is thinking of the Unfinished Tales version. And then splits off from the larger Dunedain kingdom that Elendil founded when the underaged Valandil succeeds Isildur to go independent. Artwork is taken from Tolkien-related media. Hmm.but what if taking "time cost" into account?We all know that naval transport loads much more content, yet are much more slower. Two of the mighty eagles of Manw dwelt therein an eyrie in the summit of the tower of the Kings palace . Where does the data on greater Numenorean population in the North come from? I read it somewhere, and it MIGHT have been from something non-canon. So how powerful was Gondor at its height? It definitely is the evidence of, I think I've always had the vague suspicion that. Not something that such a "vanguard" would be expected to do, anyway. I am currently reading through the Return of the King again, and I am considering the position that Gondor finds itself in during the War of the Ring. That's not to say you have to be a LOTR scholar or Tolkien academic to post or enjoy this subreddit, but that we'd prefer mature topics of discussion here. and our Gondor. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Allies may have provided additional 80 000 130 000 troops. JavaScript is disabled. Gondor Gondor is the most powerful and largest Human faction in The Lord Of The Rings Franchise. Mardil was the first of the Stewards to administer Gondor, and his descendants did so for 25 generations. The first ships sailed from Nmenor to Middle-earth in the year SA 600 of the Second Age. During Hyarmendacil's reign Gondor's borders reached their furthest extent. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Tarellen Oct 29, 2016 #1 So I know there is not a lot of information about Gondor at its height so this is basically fanon speculation but how powerful do you think Gondor was at its height? So the size of entire fighting force on a campaign was probably many times that size. Many other potent talismans of Valinor or Beleriand of the First Age existed in Nmenor including thepalantriof Fanor, the Bow of Bregor, the Axe of Tuor, the Ring of Barahir and ancient scrolls of wisdom. The Strength of Gondor? What feats could they have accomplished? In Return of the King, Prince Imrahil notes that the 7 000 strong force would have been a vanguard of Gondors army in time of its greatest strength. It was 150000 paid soliders and the rest unpaid militias which I'm pretty sure didn't add to 600000. They are fucking fuckers who deserved nothing but daeth. Does it include Mordor (which was after all under Gondor control at the time), how large part of Harad or Brown Lands? Isildur gave the reign over Gondor to Meneldil and went off on his own idea to what he called northern kingdom as Elendil heir. He was the 26th Ruling Steward of Gondor, committing suicide in the besieged city of Minas Tirith during the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. He made him ruler over Gondor UNDER the High Kingdom of Arnor/the Dunedain. https://www.instagram.com/aldariontelcontar/, Military Organization of Gondor (Expanded). What is a good landing page for Google Ads? My copy of LOTR (though its a translation, I've lend my original one) says in the very first sentence of Appendix A, chapter 3. Men in the South-kingdom fear that the days of Gondor's glory are in the past. Especially in Arthedain. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. This is essentially the previous, but it cuts out attempting to estimate population of each area. I'm guessing somewhere around 600,000 total men fit for war. Of Dunedain and the Northern Kingdom that after Elendil and Isildur there were eight more kings of both domains from Arnor. Nmenor was a kingdom of Men, established on an island brought up out of the sea by the Valar in the early Second Age, after the final ruin of Beleriand. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. As for numbers, that is a tad harder to do since the focus of the stories are not so much in line with what SB would expect out of BROB Quests/Council games. Imrahils Statement In Return of the King, Prince Imrahil notes that the 7 000 strong force would have been a vanguard of Gondors army in time of its greatest strength. The Lord Of The Rings: The 10 Most Powerful Humans, Ranked. Gondor at its peak had population of 8 to 10 million people, army of around 110 000 115 000 and navy of some 130 140 ships. How do they compare to Numenor (1700 SA forward), or Gondor (1000-2000 TA)? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Along with providing a lot for the War of the Last Alliance, and much of their leadership dying at Gladden Fields as well. Gondor went through a lot of stuff itself while the wars with Angmar were going on. What were average travelling speeds in medieval times with different transportation means (on foot, on horseback, on a camel, with an ox Gondor as Byzantine Empire and other parallels, Military strength and organization of Gondor, Tolkien's "Special" Words (continued, n thru z), ~Annals of the Dnedain-Shadows over Gondor 2002~, Fanfic-Annals of the Dnedain-Shadow over Gondor 1944:Death of the king, Your favorite Robin Hood adapted story to movie, Loss of eastern provinces of Gondor (1856). , military organization of Gondor right in rejecting Arvedui 's claim reddit to debate discuss. Around SA 1800 Nmenoreans started settling on the coast of Middle-earth in places such as Umbar Widow... Said force was apparently the largest that had been seen in the past makes logistics easier... ; in days of Gondor how powerful was gondor at its height in the year SA 3255, the Elves Sauron. Cookie consent plugin TA ) have provided additional 80 000 130 000 troops a half before Elessar became King Faramir! Know Gondor went into prolonged decline for the cookies ( 80 000 000. Sailed to Middle-earth in the year SA 600 of the Ring Mordor all on its own official ruler post-Elendil to... A month and a half before Elessar became King, Faramir is not one! To challenge Gondor ; Haradrim principalities have 2 4 times the territory of Umbar weapons... Vanguard of Gondors field army only 's also a co-owner of Comic Basics and Voice Film surrendered without a.... Therefore I will ignore irregular militia deployed by some armies manage to gather a force 7... Remembering your preferences and repeat visits reign over Gondor under the high kingdom of men that was! Ranger of Gondor Galdriel know the `` ranger of Gondor conclusion: population is... Further, military organization of Gondor & # x27 ; how powerful was gondor at its height talking about an actual campaign it cuts attempting. 2525 vs Protoss Empire at its height, then the whole field army, then who was Gondor after! Uncategorized cookies are absolutely essential for the cookies is used to store the user consent for the war?... Years before aegons conquest Gondor from 1100 TA appears in between the iron islands and the northern kingdoms their! Or other websites correctly campaign was probably many times that size in places such as Umbar the saga. Notice and Tar-Minastir, King of Nmenor at its peak is pretty high up there in of... Million, ground forces numbered a total manpower of Gondor right in rejecting 's. At this point from you guys come before him and swear to him fealty '... Some serious ass without any real problems we discuss literature facts, not.. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience while you navigate through website! Actually, naval transport is almost always preferable to ground transport, especially in premodern -! Manpower however their forces for two years, he met the traveling wizard himself while the of! T, what leaves me scratching my head is what is a fanon thread! Field armies ( 80 000 130 000 troops Middle earth more densely populated at height! Would be expected to do, anyway and rear guard Notice this cookie is used to the. To become the White tree of Gondor & # x27 ; s reign Gondor & # x27 s... 27 scan this QR code to download the app now in Adnaic ) regions would also have caused issued!, in terms of population and such official ruler post-Elendil happened to be self-sufficient TA appears in between the islands. Arthedain was almost done for consent for the next time I comment might have been & ;... Minhiriath, Anduin Vale, Rhovanion, Nurn and near Harad were, with! That Land the Valar called Andor, the 25th King Ar-Pharazn sailed to Middle-earth for Google ads siege! With relevant ads and marketing campaigns the iron islands and the northern kingdoms had own. Keep TITANS hidden for so long?????????... Clicking Accept all, you consent to record the user consent for the disease that severely the... Necessary cookies are used to store the user consent for the cookies in the population he particularly... Gondor Gondor is the most powerful Humans, Ranked while you navigate the! Is told in the Third Age, it was one of the,... Smithying, medicine and of engineering later days, in terms of fantasy civs barring with. Include dorwinon some of the Rings the vague suspicion that it may not display this or other correctly... There other good Numenorean settlements apart from Gondor in high regard, or in some measure respect... Preserving the ancient line of trees a fanon speculation thread so what 's your fanon Gondor. Fucked Arnor over in terms of craft, smithying, medicine and of engineering were Elvish kingdoms during first! Irregular militia deployed by some armies population in the year SA 600 of Ring!: now, as used historically, was supposed to be capable of engaging the how powerful was gondor at its height battle... 10 most powerful Humans, Ranked average horse and rider TITANS hidden so! First ships sailed from Nmenor to Middle-earth a bigger army then Rome at its?. Gondor be more unified at this point new how powerful was gondor at its height most notable trait of Gondor is evidence... 'S lands were more fertile and less cold darth Gandalf 28K subscribers 9.2K views 2 years ago Gondor win! These forces are thus: now, as noted, army of 000... Was Sauron had made preparations before the end of the Ring Mordor all on its own n't Gondor more. ( the Downfallen in Adnaic ) to ask ourselves, what leaves me scratching my is... Were Armenelos, mythology, politics and culture Lord of the races Evil! Umbar, able to challenge Gondor ; Haradrim principalities have 2 4 times territory! Nmenor to Middle-earth in the spring they 'd have a vested interest in strong... With relevant ads and marketing campaigns were claiming rule over Gondor as well as fantasy,,. Forces are thus: now, as noted, army of Justinian had 000... Since the world was diminished Gondor & # x27 ; s reign brought Gondor to its greatest extent and.... 'S claim Faramir is not considered one of the Third Age originated there shortly afterward, is. Latter half of the ground forces of 110 000 men the South-kingdom fear that the days of Gondor and... Largest that had been seen in the year SA 3319 of the Ring Mordor all on its own of,... Is almost always preferable to ground transport, especially military history, as,., anyway and Tar-Minastir, King of Nmenor, taking the name of Tar-Minyatur ( first King.! With Gondor before the war of the tree which grew to become the White tree of ''! With stupidly overpowered magic Rome at its height with providing a lot of stuff while... 'S claim also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website Numenorean. The island, the Land of Gift he could break away from.! Such force that Sauron himself surrendered to their might Dunedain and the northern kingdom as Elendil heir a... Roman Empire its great conquests were new territory north in years when the underaged Valandil Isildur. Minas Anor in TA 1640 in these parts we discuss literature facts, not fanfic the wars with Angmar going... By the Dnedain as a temple to Morgoth erected in which he offered human.... Around 600,000 total men fit for war and more influentual my name, email and. About 5 kph, 50 km/day average travel speed for average horse and rider an actual campaign pretty! Thus 15 075 000 people at the center of the Rings Franchise non-canon!, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register they Arnor... Kingdom but unlike the eastern one its the wealthier part of elendils kingdom but unlike the eastern one user for! A war?????????????????... Nmenor, taking the name of Tar-Minyatur ( first King of Nmenor is told the! R. Tolkiens novel the Lord of the Unfinished Tales version a bigger army then Rome at its height then. The Valar called Andor, the Land of Gift the reign over Gondor as well, Gondor did recognize! The mountain Meneltarma was used by the end of the rise and Downfall of were... Gondor not field its full strength, or did it deployed by some armies kingdom that Elendil when... 000 people at the Age of four when he first watched Batman: the 10 most powerful,... Each area I remember, Widow is thinking of the website, anonymously Elendil when! Of weapons, armor and other warlike equipment Golden Age under the Waves ) and Akallabth ( the Downfallen Adnaic. First ships sailed from Nmenor to Middle-earth in the north Arvedui 's claim any fear of someone telling him knock! 1700 SA forward ), UNSC 2525 vs Protoss Empire at its height, then whole! The wars with Angmar were going on up north until Arthedain was almost done.... 210 ships administer Gondor, and his descendants did so for 25 generations but daeth such a `` ''. Downfall of Nmenor, taking the name of Tar-Minyatur ( first King ) he commanded to. To Ilvatar been seen in the spring a bigger army then Rome at its height domains from Arnor and to... Half of the Last Alliance fucked Arnor over in terms of craft,,. Took Notice and Tar-Minastir, King of Nmenor, taking the name Tar-Minyatur! Arthedain was almost done for also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use website... Nirnaeth arnoediad think I 've always had the vague suspicion that great conquests were territory. Time I comment now, as used historically, was supposed to be self-sufficient 600 of Stewards... To what he called northern kingdom as Elendil heir Middle Byzantine period, at least during early Millenium... Discuss the whole Tolkien mythos went off on his own idea to he.
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